OPENING

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's been a while since I've asked whose turn is it anyway, and I'm getting reunion vibes already. Becky's back on the mic, and we're gonna look at the games that bring people in and the moments that push them away.

PHASE A: INTRODUCING BECKY

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Welcome to the Just Play podcast. I'm your host, JP, and this is a very special episode because it's a just play reunion. Uh, which, well, what the hell does that mean? Well, let me just get straight over and introduce my very special guest. It is Becky from Hi, mate. Formerly from the Who's Ten Is It Anyway podcast. So welcome, Becky. Blast from the Pass.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I'm honoured to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

I say b blast from the past. Not for me. I I saw you uh last night.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Yes, last night, yeah, and the night before, wasn't it as well?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

I've seen you more in this past week than I've probably seen you in, I don't know, the the past month or so. But yeah, I I wanted to uh well we we were having a chat, right? And you said, you know, obviously with a new venture and doing just playing, you said, I'd love to help or support. If you ever need to, you know, um run an episode and you want me to jump on, I'd love to do it. And I went, why not? Let's let's do it. Let's let's kind of do a special uh kind of reunion sort of episode. And and mainly for the listeners of the Who's Turn is It Anyway podcast who have gone, I miss Becky.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

I don't think anyone said that, did I? I I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

I think there are there are definitely people out there that uh will go, Well, I I enjoy those episodes that Becky does, I enjoy the episodes that Adrian does, and all that kind of stuff. And and I I've obviously feel a little bit guilty because I said, No, I'm not doing Whose Turn Is It Anyway anymore. And I've kind of uh stopped it.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

So I so you know the amount of effort and people wrangling you have to do, mate. I mean, you do that enough in a job as it is, you don't need to do it in your free in your free time, do you? I must apologize if anyone can hear lots of rowdy noise. Um Curly, Tambo, and Rob are in the kitchen playing Elder Scrolls.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Elder Scrolls. So it is a reunion in a way, because that plays sort of is, yeah. Yeah, they're playing games, and uh yeah, they might have to just get them to say hi. Um that'd be

Introducing Becky

SPEAKER_02 2:11

quite cool. Um, but no, I mean for those that don't know um yourself, Becky, because we've got some new listeners to the Just Play podcast that um maybe haven't even listened to Whose Turn, and if not, why not? Because there's four years worth of content there.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yeah, get on the bandwagon, guys.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Get on the bandwagon, and if you enjoy this, you're definitely probably gonna enjoy all of that stuff and maybe skip the first few episodes because of audio quality issues, because we were learning and noobs.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Um it's it's a it's a journey, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

It definitely is. Um, but for those that don't know you, um, basically, how long have you been in the hobby? And kind of let's let's start there. Let's introduce yourself. I think no one knows you.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Yeah, I think it was probably about 2017, I reckon. Um, early days when we started, well, when you started the gaming group wanting more people to play with. And um me and Curly had just got back together after a about five-year gap, probably, something like that. And we realized that we needed to do something. Uh, we needed to set aside time together that we could, well, not schedule fun, but do something that we made sure that we that we made sure that we that we kind of prioritise actually spending time together. So we've both got quite singular hobbies. So he plays a lot of video games, um, PC games, um, reading books, stuff like that. Um, I do quite a lot of crafting and reading, so sort of solitary hobbies really that aren't necessarily geared up for sharing with other people. So we kind of both kind of like games, our families like games. So we thought, well, you know, we'll we'll try a bit of Catan. Oh, and there we go. And the doors opened. And the rest is history, really. Yeah. So started off with Catan and Carcassonne, and well, that's half of it there. So it just kind of um kind of snowballs, doesn't it? In that lovely way of a collection. So yeah, that was kind of that's what gaming really was, was for me and for us. It was a way of making sure that we sort of prioritised each other and spent time together. And we do play some games together now, but I think probably in the Venn diagram of his kind of favourite games and mine, there is a bit of an overlap, but I think, yeah, we've definitely got more games that we don't like of each other's than probably games that we share, but there's plenty enough that we do share.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

So, yeah, no, that's cool. I think um, yeah, similarly, I think with your husband, I I have a similar Venn diagram now. We used to be quite overlapped, but I think he's he we I think this is the thing and the hobby, right? You you when you're in it a while, like in the early stages, you everyone plays everything and they're in the same thing, but you kind of get to know what you like and what you don't like, and you get more choosy and more picky, and then you get your wheelhouse, right? This is my stuff, and everyone's gets gets their stuff.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

I think that's why it's we've got such a good gaming group together, because that diversity of interest means that there's always going to be someone out of everybody that will probably want to play that said game. Whereas I've got quite a lot of games in my collection that I know that Curly won't want to play, so unless I played with others, uh they'd never get to the table. So I think it's nice that everyone's got likes a bit of something different.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, hundred

What is Becky's favourite game?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

percent. So your favourite game then. Do you have a favourite game? I can't I I thought about this question. I said, Does Becky have a favourite game? And I can't think what it is. It's all about it.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

No, I mean, for for anyone that listened to the Who's Turn Pod, they'll know that it's that I'm gonna say Arcnova. They'll know that I'm gonna say that. I mean there's a there's a few that are are up there, but I think well with Arcnova, I love the artwork, I love the theme. It the action selection mechanic is so so clever and not brain burnery, but you can really use it to some sort of depth. And I think most importantly for me, I've got the repetition of plays, and I think for that, that for me is really important. Um I don't think I'm a slow learner necessarily, but I like to do things over and over and over and over again, and then I really kind of feel like, oh, I've got this now. That absolutely does not mean that my win streak is high, especially when I'm playing against Curly. But it means that I know how the game works, and for me, that's really important for my enjoyment of it, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

And I think for the who's whose turn listeners, I have to call it Bart Bover. Bart Bova is what I have to call it.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

And and the people that haven't listened to that won't know what I'm on about, but that's they all mock me, but it's still my favourite game, and I can't help it. And I don't want to help it, so there.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

That's fair. That is fair.

Life after Whose Turn Podcast

SPEAKER_02 6:39

So there you go, everyone. So for the new listeners, that's Becky. Um, but for those who have listened to Whose Turn will know exactly who you are and what you like and all that kind of stuff. So um, so let's let's kind of move on to the thing. I I wanted to ask you, uh, kind of on behalf of the listeners, right? Um, which is kind of a weird question for me to ask you, but like obviously, from a from a being on the podcast perspective, what's it been like for you since I've been a bit of a git and said not to to do it?

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Don't say that. You absolutely haven't been a bit of a git. I'm I'm really, really pleased, and I know all of us are that you're still carrying on with this because A, you really love it, and B, you're really good at it, and it's really nice that you've that this is still existing rather than it just kind of crumbling to nothing. So I'm I'm really glad that the podcast ended when it did, uh the Whose Term Podcast ended when it did, everyone's still enjoying it, and that's really, really important. And I think if we'd have carried on much longer with you having to do all of the organizing, then it becomes not fun anymore, doesn't it? And that's why are we all here? We're playing games because it's fun, it's not a chore. So what have I missed? Well, I don't know, bizarrely, probably the thing that I would have thought I would have disliked the most, which is the prep that I had to do for my episode. You know me, JP. I like a bit of prep work and I get myself sorted. And yeah, just thinking about this, um doing this sort of uh chat with you now, it's like, oh yeah, I I really liked kind of setting out my thoughts in order and thinking about the topic. But if you'd have asked me, what are you gonna be really glad you don't have to do, I would have 100% said they're sorting out for the episodes. So yeah. I think to be honest, not not much has changed for us. We all still game together, we went to the UK GE together, everything is still exactly the same, isn't it? No, you know, there's not been any kind of change. Um yeah, so I I listened to your episodes just the same as I listened to the ones that we put out that I wasn't in.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Yeah, I think that's important for me as well. Like, um, you know, I didn't really want anything to change in in that respect. And yeah, it it's kind of weird because like I think people listen in and think I might have just disappeared off the face of the earth for for you guys because they won't get to see you. Whereas I I live in close proximity of you. You're still playing playing.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

You live in our house pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, we still play games, so nothing really has changed on that um perspective. And um, and I know I'll probably speak for some of the other guys who you know they're they're quite happy to have the time back, uh to be honest.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Yeah, it it is a big chunk of time. I mean, maybe not for those of us that didn't do the background stuff, yeah. Um, but it yeah, it's still a it's still a time drop in an in a busy life, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_02 9:23

It is. There we go. Um cool. I I thought I'd ask the question because it's not one that I kind of wanted to ask for my own light. Oh, please, please tell me what I want to hear. Um, it's generally I think people would ask it um of you. And it's probably one that whenever I get one of the the the old team back, I'll I'll ask it on them and just basically it's nice to see how you've been getting on from everyone's perspective. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Yeah, well, we're all still here, we're all still gaming just the same. So in fact, I've probably gamed more in the last, I don't know, three to four weeks than I have. It's always the UKGE kind of I don't know, ignites a little gaming spark back again, doesn't it? So it's quite nice.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

It certainly does. It certainly does.

PHASE B: LET'S TALK ABOUT HEX

SPEAKER_02 10:01

So I think in in basically what in my normal episodes, as you know, I I have a section called Just Played where we talk about games that we I've played. And it's pretty much a ripoff. I'm not gonna lie, it's a rip-off of our old section, um, which is let's talk about hex. So in homage to who's does it anyway, I think we should re-reignite the let's talk about hex segment. And I'm gonna insert the sting. Bring it post book, baby. I'm gonna insert the sting just for old time's sake, so it's there. So here we go. I'm gonna do it right now. Um there we go. That is let's talk about hex. That's fun. I love the old stings. I do kind of miss them um in putting them in because they're very energetic and and crazy.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

Like energetic is the word, I think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

It's very just like, ah, have it. Um, but there we go. So let's talk about hex. I I'm not gonna talk about games because I've been doing it on my own episodes. Um, and if I keep talking about all the games that I keep playing, I'm gonna run out of content. So I'm gonna keep some of them back. But I want to talk about what you've played.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Well, the games that I've played recently have funnily enough been with you. So yeah, I'll have some of the players. We've played, yeah, we played Wispwood, uh, not Whisper Wood or Whispering Wood, Wisp Wood, um CG's Wisp Wood, and Nocturne by uh Flat Out Games. So they've been the two that have been latest on my tables. Absolutely loved Wispwood. What a great game! Really nice, just perfect for me. It's puzzle y, which is great. Love a puzzle game. It's really simple, the premise is really simple, but the the choice then becomes like, oh no, do I go for this? You've got a really nice decision space, which is really well done, and it's very beautiful, which is as some of your listeners will know, is very important to me. Um yeah, what what a great game. Really simple. And I used the scoring app that you can download, and that was very cool. Chef's kiss, very, very helpful, nice and simple. Really liked that.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, I agree. That that really liked streamlined the game um bits that we just I want to get to the next level, Becky. So I've got your thing.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Yeah, hold your phone over, bing, bing, bing, done.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant. So for for those that haven't heard of wisp would before, um, very high level. Like what's the premise of the game? What's the structure? What's the flow?

SPEAKER_03 12:31

So you're building a four by four or five by five or six by six grid made out of tiles. These tiles are either trees or what they call wisps, which are blue orbs, red hearts, uh jack-o' lanterns, and witches' hats. So you have a set kind of um a set design you're trying to construct, which will give you points for jack-o' lantern, say, and a different design that will score you for the heart wisps and the trees, that sort of thing. So each level you are getting a bigger grid, but your wisps stay in place. So wherever you put them on the first round, bear in mind that that's exactly where they're going to stay for the next round. But some have sort of placement rules. So, for example, the game we played the other day, you could only place the hat wisps, the the witch hat wisps, next to or in the in the column where your cat is. So your cat is like a central figure in your forest. Because cats live in forests, right? Sure. And they hide in and they hide in trees. So, but yeah, it it all works, it all works in that lovely board game weird theme kind of planet. Um, so you have to kind of be judicious with where you put your cat each uh the start of each round, because that is going to restrict where you can place certain things. So it's uh there's a little bit of pre-planning, but not enough that it ruins your whole game because each turn someone is going to take one of the players is going to take one of the pieces out of the uh pond, uh, which is like the market area, and then you can choose to uh put it in the uh configuration of either uh shape either side, like Tetris kind of pieces, aren't they? So you can pick either of those. However, you don't know what your neighbour's going to pick, so yeah, you can't set your heart on having particularly that thing, because you can guarantee that if you do that, then the person in front of you is gonna take it first, which is very disappointing. Just another but uh yeah, action so selection of of tile, tile placement, I would say, is its kind of in essence.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, and I think the the cool thing about it is the fact that it it grows in rounds, right? So yeah, you like start with that four by four where you think everything's really tight, and it's like I'm gonna get a few shapes in and then it's done, and then you get to the five by five, and you go, Oh my god, this space. And then you can see six by six, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Yeah, and you can think, well, actually, I can move it quite far to the left or right for a start, and then you're kind of gonna lock yourself into a particular particular sort of dimension, really. Yeah, but yeah, really, really interesting. And I love the way that you take the trees out, so you've got this kind of higgledy-piggledy bit of a grid, but then you've got to fill it back round again. So you've got to be careful how you put things. But yeah, really, I think it's one of those games where you play it once and you understand what you're doing, and then the second time you play, you kind of you know what you're aiming to do, which I think is really important for me for gaming. I need to be able to get the point really quickly, otherwise, I kind of if I don't know why I'm making decisions, I think I'm better at it now than I used to be, for sure, with learning new games. But I think definitely I like that kind of low stake for a start. It's only going to be, I don't know, half an hour. So if you completely muck it up, it's not the end of the world. You can just play another round. And I really like that. I really like that in a game.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah, I was impressed with Whiswood. I I think um we were talking about uh obviously my experience in Essen uh last year, because I I picked up um or played a copy, I think it's probably Mark's copy or um Mr. Monk from Ninja Geek Games who keeps going.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

There's your mention mark, there is your mention mark.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Yeah, sponsored by Ninja Geek Games, just play podcast. Um and effectively, yeah, we we played it on I think it was like the first evening, and and it's one of those games like that you know me, like it's not what I would pick to choose to play, right? That kind of game is like I play it and I usually have a great time, but it's not something I would go I really want to play. But I came away going, you know what, I was a surprise. It's probably the biggest surprise hit for me, that that Essen experience, and gone.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

It was such a bloody good game, and I kind of sit in there going, Oh god something so simple, it's yeah, I mean, and and that's I think one of the good things about it, you could play it with someone who doesn't want to get super beardy over it and and really try and min-max everything. You could play this with kids because it is easy to understand, so it's it's simple, but if you want to try and kind of yeah, min-max and and get the the most efficient placement, you you can do that with a bit of thought. I wouldn't recommend that though, because you're just gonna sit there looking at the shapes and just pulling your hair out.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

But you're right though, it's it's a game that I think families would enjoy, but it's a game that gamers would enjoy playing with their families. Yeah, and that that for me is what I struggle with actually. I've noticed that more and more where I kind of bring games or family games, I just I lose interest in the game if it doesn't have enough in it for me, and that's the curse of me playing heavier games, right? I just I go, I was bored of this. Um but no, that that one I think has something for everyone, like for for newbies that just like the tessellation of trying to fit shapes in in in spaces, but also that like you say, the the oh no, but if I put it here, and the satisfaction of filling this particular shape and seeing how that works. Oh, it's like, yes, I've finished my grid. Yeah, have it.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

And in the same kind of vein, that's what I liked about Nocturne, the um the flat out games Nocturne, which is a oh what would you describe it as a bidding mechanic? So you've got tokens of a certain value, and you're kind of creating a sort of snake pattern um on a on a grid for certain sizes, depending on uh how many players you've got. We were playing a four by five, so you so you put the tiles out, and then one player starts, and the next player then in an orthogonal uh direction can put one of their larger value tokens, and then each person can either choose to pass or or increase the their sort of token, and then the winner takes that tile, and then you do it again, and then again, and there's a few sort of tweaks in it. Um, so you're trying to do a bit of set collection, but there's also goals that you're trying to set. So it's towards the end of the game, you might be looking to win the pieces in the corners or or whatever. So it's uh yeah, it's a set collection uh bidding game with a bit of what's the mannequinic called when you're trying to kind of fulfill a contract. Contract fulfilling contract, yes, basically contracts, yeah. Yeah, and again, very beautiful. I guess some people might be a bit annoyed by or bored by the kind of anthropomorphised animal thing. I'm all for it. I love a nice bit of yeah. That like kind of Andrew Bosley, Beth Sobel kind of beautiful artwork. I am here for it.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah, you're like foxes in robes, and that's pretty much what No Nocturne is giving you.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

That's basically Nocturne, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yeah, I don't mind I don't mind the theme. Theme doesn't do anything for me, but it doesn't like get on get in the way of the game at all.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

But it could be anything, it could be space, it could be absolutely anything, but uh it's quite cute. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, it's quite cute. I I really like I've not seen it done before, the the bid bid snaky mechanic. And yeah, and actually when you kind of explain it to people and they go, What? And it's it's difficult to kind of visualize how it would be, but when you start playing it, it's quite straightforward. It's like, oh yeah, I've got to do that.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

After turn two, you you know you know exactly what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

But it's the number of it.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Yeah, you might be annoyed that the other person, oh no, I didn't want you to go that direction because I want to head over here.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Um but it's like where where do you where do you put the number to go actually I want them to go this direction, which you don't you can't guarantee, because I want that particular tile. And if I go too big too soon, the snake won't kind of enlarge itself, as it were, to get to the tile I want, but you might not even go in that direction anyway. So you're pivoting your choice constantly, going, I don't want to want this. And you can't go on a spot.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

You can't go on a spot you really don't want, because if everyone passes, you're getting it. So yeah, it is a it's not brain burnery by any set stretch of the imagination, but it's it's it's it's puzzling in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah, it's very puzzly. And it we had that kind of puzzly evening, didn't we, where yeah, we were just playing lots of puzzle games, and and I'm really pleased because like you you put uh an event up, and like I said, we had three of us and we cracked through three games that evening, and it was a blast. It was a blast to just blitz through three separate games and and kind of get those to the table because uh I know they're not always the easiest to get to the table on a game night. They usually I do it as a warm-up or a warm down.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Yeah, they're a good filler as well, that kind of quick action game.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Yeah, but I enjoyed it, I was exactly what I needed, I think, for that Sunday. So I was nice.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah, it was it was nice, it was nice.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Cool. Well, there you go. That's that's our little let's talk about hex. So I think we should go into um kind of the main segment, uh, which we titled Belonging at the table.

PHASE C: BELONGING AT THE TABLE

SPEAKER_02 21:39

So we're gonna look at the um the the main segment, then we're gonna talk about the belonging at the table. So it's kind of a wide topic, this Becky, and and yeah, you said this is kind of what you wanted to to chat around. And and so we kind of dissect it into different kind of topic y areas. So I think we're just gonna have a bit of a chat, right? And we're just gonna talk about um what it means to to kind of belong. At the gaming table, whether you're new to well, mainly if you're new to the hobby and what it's like to be new in the hobby. And this does align, I think, to you. Out of everybody in our gaming group, I think you are the probably the evangelist to try and get people in to the hobby because of the games that you like are more suited, I would say, than anyone else's in our gaming group. Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

But also I think I know what gaming has done for me and continues to do for me. So a bit like any kind of sort of convert to anything, you become very yeah, evangelical about the thing, and you want to you want to infect other people with your interest.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Of your goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Yeah. And I I do strongly believe that there is a game out there for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah, I I do as well, 100%. There's just one you haven't probably found yet. That kind of tick ticks your box.

What do you think are the barriers for newcomers to the hobby?

SPEAKER_02 22:54

So so what do you think? Like putting your kind of newcomer hat on, right? Which is like for me, it would have been what 11 years ago. Um, and even then I was probably cheating because I was still part of the hobby when I was a kid. So I kind of had this little dip. But what do you think are like the real barriers for the most newcomers coming in?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Well, I think maybe that the whole fear of the unknown, perhaps a little bit. So, oh my goodness, are there going to be really complicated rules? Am I gonna look silly if I don't know the answer? Um, isn't board gaming just Monopoly and Cludo and those games that everyone knows about at Christmas, and maybe you've witnessed some horrific family feud over, I don't know, and someone's tipped the board over or something. Isn't that what board gaming is? So maybe just not knowing about it and worrying that you don't if you do fancy playing, but I'm not gonna know the rules and and everyone's gonna look at me. And so I think there is that can be a really massive, massive sort of off-putting thing for people.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, it's it's a strange one, isn't it? Because it's uh I think confidence is one of those things. Is people like it's just it's a thing over there. Like I don't know if that's for me. Sometimes the people don't think is that for me.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

It's I think because there's n sometimes with games that are interesting looking, you can have people wander over and and just be interested in the pieces, but if it's quite a dry beige euro, for want of a better word, that probably isn't going to I don't know, draw people in with the nice colours or something. If it's an interesting IP that they know, it you know, if it's I don't know, trying to think of an IP, a computer game that people know about or something that people recognize, then maybe that might sort of draw people in in the first instance. But I think gaming can have a bit of a a bad rap, but sort of, oh, isn't it isn't it for sweaty, nerdy people? Sort of uh maybe I mean I grew up, but the the job I did for a lot of my kind of teen years and early 20s was working in a shop next door to a comic book shop. So maybe I've always cheated a little bit and I've always been vicariously in that kind of group, I guess. But I think I mean the idea of a a girl going into one of those shops was like, oh my god, it's like a foreign species or something. So I think it I'd I hope, I would hope that that that kind of gender barrier isn't there so much anymore. I think it is a lot more inclusive and it is a lot more known about, and games are definitely, definitely targeted towards women now, some of them. Yeah, and I think that's do you need to target to you know a group or another? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. I guess it's good for advertising, isn't it? But I think it there has definitely been sort of those walls have been broken down a bit. No, this is just for it's not just pushing men on a stick, you know, like you risk kind of it isn't that's not what board gaming is anymore. And I guess back in the day when board gaming and sort of dungeons and dragons were kind of together, you have got those, I don't know, sort of hoisty old tropes of I don't know, scantily clad girl elves, right? Which is fine if you're into that, cool. Be you or what whatever you're into, but that could I can totally see why some people would be absolutely put off by that and just nah, this is not for me, not interested. So I think gaming is definitely more available now, I would think, I would hope.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah, I I've noticed on um basically, you know, uh especially on Instagram actually, uh, a lot more inclusivity. Um, like you say, female gamers uh being very prominent. Um and get actually games kind of designed I say designed for women, but being like you said, more inclusive and lots of different uh people from you know genders, this, that age, all of it. It's it's people are getting involved in the hobby, and it's it's freaking awesome. It's really awesome to see.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

I'm sure you know there is obviously a a monetary side of things where they realise, oh, hold on a minute, we we just absolutely so I'm sure of course there's some of that involved, but I think there's there definitely seems to be less barriers, I would like to think, or or gatekeeping isn't quite as strong as it can be in in some other hobbies.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, we know it's still there, but it's yeah, for sure. I think it's better than it's probably ever been. Yeah. You know, we we want it to get even better.

Have you ever experienced people bounce off the hobby?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

But yeah, let's kind of roll back a little bit. So, in terms of um your own experience, have you ever kind of experienced people bounce off the hobby? Have you ever had that kind of happen to you or near you or in your Yeah?

SPEAKER_03 27:43

I mean, I think all of us in the group have kind of waxed and waned with it, um, sort of naturally through the hobby for various reasons. I think gaming should be fun and that's why we do it. But sometimes I think if there's stress in your life or at work or whatever, sometimes it can lead you to not wanting to have to make decisions, you know, even the good stress versions, such as board gaming and stuff. If you're really, if you've got a really hectic stuff, lots of stuff happening, you don't then want to have to make decisions about stressful things in your spare time, perhaps. But but I guess on the flip side of that, um, sometimes completely putting yourself into a game, similar to sort of immersing yourself into a good book or a film series or TV series or something, it can be a bit of escapism, can't it? So, you know, there is there is both of those sides to the same coin, I think. Um, with gaming with me, I think, yeah, if I've had really stressful life stuff or whatever, maybe puzzle games, solo puzzler games are okay because they're quite distracting, but I don't want to be set up with having to make decisions because that's just part of my brain. I just go, no, I'm I'm not interested in that. Yeah, yeah. That's not this is not fun for me anymore. This is not fun. I think I guess we've had a few people that have kind of come into the group and then played less, but we still kind of see them every now and again. And I think, yeah, sometimes life just gets in the way at times, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

It is, it's about priorities, I think. I think I think we probably prioritise gaming a hell of a lot more than normal people.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Regular, though it's normal, yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

But I think it's because we know what the payoff is, and we know that what we get out of it, it's not yeah, you know, we we don't do it because we just love games, we actually get uh you know some feedback from the game, whether that's emotion or or whatever it is, we're we're getting something from the hobby which we think is worth the time, don't we? So yeah, it it's an interesting, it's an interesting one.

How should we behave when there's a new player at the table?

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Um so if we've got a new player to the table, so let's say you've got I don't know, a game event coming up next week and you know there's a new person coming, like what do you think more experienced gamers should be aware of when a new player is coming for a gaming night? Like, because it's very easy to just kind of slip into the uh uh the same old tropes, right? And and deal deal with things in a certain way, but like do you take special care that a new person is? I think you should.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

I think you should. I think me and you are quite similar in this, JP, where we're both very affected by the moods of everyone else around the table. So if I know someone, especially if they're in my house, yeah, uh if someone isn't having fun, I that would ruin everything for me. And I would do anything I could to make it better. Because the idea that I've invited someone into my house uh to play a game that I love and they're hating every second of it, I that would just I'd feel terrible. I'd feel really terrible. So I guess it's it's really important not to be over-passionate, super excited about this game and and sort of throw thrust it down their down their neck and and be really this is so amazing, you should yes. So I I think because we because we love it, uh maybe we can sometimes come across a little bit overwhelming. So I guess just you know, ch chill, chill out a little bit. With some people, yeah, exactly. I think with some people it's really important that you kind of set the ground rules so they might be thinking, Oh, am I allowed to drink at the table? Can I eat some crisps? Can I so maybe sometimes having those conversations to get it out there removes the the anxiety? Yeah, I guess with some people that might be like, All right, I can't have a cup of tea, but I mean relax. But you know, I think with my games, I'm fairly relaxed. I would never be as relaxed with other people's games, and I do make sure I say that if I'm sitting there eating, you know, I don't know, crisps and dip or something, I am playing my game. I do make sure I say I would never do this with your game, by the way, because I don't want people to think, well, she's an absolute tyrant with games. Look at the greasy finger marks.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

But if it's my thousand island sauce that she's just uh open up ready for her Doritos to go in.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

Well, when I first got my crokinole board, the literally one of the first things that happened in the first half an hour was I spilt chow mein on it. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Oh, I didn't know this.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

Yeah, when me and Ian were playing, and it was his first crokinole game. Um, so it's a bit of a blast from the past for some of our older listeners. Yeah, Ian, who was in sort of some of the very early episodes, then became Crokinole UK, head of the Crock and All UK group um on Facebook, which is now doing massive tournaments and going all around the country, which is fantastic. So he played his first game of crokinole as I did on my kitchen table. We ordered Chinese, and then I spilt my Xiaomi right on the board.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Did it go into the 20 hole?

SPEAKER_03 32:40

It didn't, no, it didn't, it was alright. So yeah, I think if if you've got a new player coming to the root to the to the group, introductions are really important, but I think you very quickly know what what kind of vibe you've got. So I think we are all quite um comedy is quite important for us, and people saying uh you have to well, I'm trying with a political way of saying it, we might talk and make jokes at each other and about each other in a way that we all know, we'll know is yeah, it's banter and it's loving, it's our love language with each other. Whereas I think if you've got a new person in involved, you kind of have to bear that in mind a little bit and a not ostracize them from the in in jokes, but also don't scare don't scare them away and make them think that you're gonna speak to them like that if you you know if they're new or something.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Unless you're playing Game of Thrones, then it all bets. Unless you're playing Game, yeah. Sorry. But then if that's the new play, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

It made the group, didn't it? It made the group, and I think it did maybe it's like a hazing ritual if you can't if you can't deal with playing Game of Thrones. Well, you know, we don't want to want you.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

We don't want you, but no,

The importance of curating games for new players

SPEAKER_02 33:51

I think I think it's important. Like um, and I've had it recently with uh uh uh a chap um we we played with uh on Sunday called Mark. Uh not Mark Monk from Ninja Geek Games, second plug of the episode. Different Mark, completely different guys.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Every time you name drop someone, we're just gonna ring this bell.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

I'll just put some graphic up there uh somewhere on the episode every time I mention him. Um no, it's a different Mark. Um and he's been wanting to kind of get back into games he's not played since like the late 80s. Um and I've been trying to curate the right games for him to kind of come and play. And it's been it's been an interesting experience. I've really enjoyed it actually, because like the the the part of me is going, I just want to get Liz Boa to the table, I would love that. And then I have to check myself and go, No, you come on, let's not be silly, and you know, and that could bounce him right off the hobby and go, This is just not for me, I didn't enjoy it. So, you know, we we've been picking kind of different games. I think started with Deco, which is uh one of the new um games, you know, you played at Full Ball Gaming, which is that poker um kind of poker game that's a bit like Villatro, um which is a digital game. But yeah, started him on that because it's like, well, you already know how to play poker, you're halfway there, you just need to learn deck building, and again, you now know what deck building is. Um, but then we played Agricula again, quite mean, but as a game quite straightforward, you do this, you put work there to get stuff, and yeah, and he really enjoyed that and then played March of the Ants again, his introduction to 4x games because he likes uh dudes on a map, kind of um let's have conflict and fights and things like that. And I thought, well, it's kind of friendly, it's anti, so you can't really uh go wrong.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

It's in a garden, come on, we'll have it. It's kind of nice, isn't it? It's quite nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Um and and it's been really good to yeah, trying to curate that.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Curating is really important, and I think especially when you're known as the board gamer one and you're having to bring a new person in, they're looking to you to to I guess understand what they're going to like. And that can be easier more difficult depending on how well you know someone. But I think reading the room and sort of are they into a particular IP? Are they into I don't know, puzzle games, or are they into yeah, for X kind of dudes on a map? So I yeah, I think getting that that sweet spot, and I think that's when it helps if you've got a large, either a large collection yourself or a large group of friends with very diverse collections, you can kind of hopefully zone in on exactly what it is that you think all this will bring them back in.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, and I think that that's kind of a responsibility I think we have. Like if I look at the shelf behind you, you know, as a new player, and you go, Yeah, what would you want to play? And you go, look at look at all of those, and you're like, I I don't I'm overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. I don't know what half of these things are. That looks colourful, but I've no idea.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

So I think Yeah, you might think Spirit Island's good, but it turns out no, I'm joking.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Spirit Island is heavy, it's just not for me.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

It's just not for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

But it's heavy, and and again, is that that sort of thing that you want to kind of introduce to people on on the first play and you know that kind of thing. So yeah, I think curating is is a key thing, is trying to understand what you think they were like. You're never gonna get that 100% right. And I think but I think people, if they know you're kind of picking certain games for people and they didn't enjoy it, I think they would respect the fact you tried. Yeah, I think so. I would hope so. I didn't enjoy it, but I appreciate you you know, trying to think I might like that and you know, trying to zone in. Like, do you think it's that?

SPEAKER_03 37:27

And I think there are there are some sort of I don't know, uh, guidelines you should use. So, for example, if English is not their first language of someone in the around the table or spelling or dyslexia is going to be an issue for people, don't choose a word game because you're absolutely going to isolate someone and that's gonna be really uncomfortable. So just sometimes just think a little bit, not just not just what games do you like or do you think is really good or easy. Think about how that will play out to someone

What gateway games that have worked for us

SPEAKER_03 37:57

else.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah. Exactly, exactly. All right, let's go on to some games then, gateway games um that actually work in our experience, because there's always caveats to that. Play this game and everybody will be invested in this hobby, guaranteed. It won't, but I think ones that work for ones that work for us. So if I was to say, what is your personal starter game that you recommend? Like if you've got a new person, you already probably got one or two games in your head, go, oh no, I'll just start them off with that. What would it be?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah, so we did this over the weekend actually. Um, Curly had some friends stay over and their girlfriend came along, and she isn't really a gamer. So we did that very, very typical thing of, oh, we'll just play just one. Everybody can very quickly, but again, English is everyone's first language. We are understanding how this works. We say it doesn't matter what the spelling's like, so you're already kind of lowering the bar of expectation and hopefully ruling out some anxiety kind of areas. Yeah. So we played a few rounds of just one, very quick and easy to kind of set the scene.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Pulled out flip seven. So flip seven really helpful. You don't even need to know how to add up. As long as you can differentiate a six from a seven, you can play flip seven. I know that it's got some of its haters because it is massively, massively marketed and it is everywhere. But I have to be honest, that's because it's good. It's everyone gets incredibly invested very quickly in what everyone else is playing. And for me, that's a really vital thing for getting someone into a game. Don't possibly pick them a game where there's a massive downtime between turns. You've got to keep it snappy, I think. You've got to get them sucked in within 10 minutes. If you haven't, you've probably lost your chance, to be honest. So for me, something where everyone is taking part together and there's no sitting around waiting.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

That's that's what I would want to show someone. So things like I mean, 10B is a great one. There is the gap between turns, but you're using that time to look at your your streets or what's in the market row and trying to decide, oh, please don't take that one. I want it next. So, you know, and it's a very simple rule set, incredibly simple rule set, but you've got to achieve something. And it's easy to see where you went wrong. So next time when you play, you can improve on it. And for me, that's a really important thing. How have I figured out the the mechanics of this game? What do I think I need to do next time? So Tembi's a great one.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Rebirth. Rebirth is is up there now, I think, for me for a starter game. Very snappy, very quick. You can't sit and take a very, very long decision because you've not really got that many options. You're you're picking a tile, you're putting it down. Picking a tile, putting it down. Simple simples. Yes, there are things you're aiming for, but if you don't get them this time, well, what have you lost? Half an hour. It's fine. So I think those lower stakes are really important for me. But I guess it's important as to why you're trying to bring them in. Is it because you really want your girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever your your loved one to love games just as much as you do? And if that's why you're trying to bring them in, maybe just you know, don't overwhelm them, don't convince them everything. I mean, for me, it's great. But equally, I wouldn't try and make Curly sit down and play a puzzle game.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

No, you know he don't like him.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Because he doesn't like it. So why would I inflict that? Why would I inflict that on him? If you know your partner doesn't want to play a game about I don't know, like with Verdant making lovely pot plants in a house, don't if they're not interested in pot plants, houses, or puzzles, that's not the game for them. It should be, because it's a great game. But you know, maybe sometimes just accept that someone doesn't want to play a thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Difficult.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

But I mean that's fair. I rebirth is the one I also have in my mind for that's the one I will wheel out probably for most new players.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

If I want to play a board game, like don't get me wrong, all the ones that you've suggested about you know, flip seven stuff, I play them with people all the time. But read the reason the what I love about rebirth is at the end of your turn, you draw a tile out of your bag. So already I've got the tile, I know what it is. I'm looking at the board going, where can I put that? And by the time I've even thought about where I'm gonna place that tile, because it's quite obvious where you've played, especially at the beginning, it's like so many shorty lights go here that everyone's done it. It's like done, done, done, you'll go again. Oh, okay, I'll put it there, get three points, pull another tile out of my bag. Hmm, I've got this settlement now. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna go there. Oh, it's my go. Cool. Like like you say, the it snaps, it's just so quick. Um, and like you say, the game doesn't overstate, it's welcome, it's done in a half hour, 45 minutes, done.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

You can't really get sort of analysis paralysis because like you say, there's not many places where you can go, but it feels like a proper board game. So if someone was really averse to board games, well, I might try and lure them in by doing a card game then. So, you know, like something like Deco, you're playing cards, which is something they already know, which is something that they've probably already maybe enjoy. You know, poker is a is a really common pastime, isn't it? So playing playing that kind of card game with someone, it's making them see it slightly differently. And oh, okay, yeah, I have enjoyed this. Yeah, it's about scoring points or collecting a thing. And if you like that, then maybe you might like these things so you can sort of bring them in. I think Ticket to Ride is a really great one for ease of access, yeah. But it can take a long time and there can be a little bit more I don't want to say conflict because it's not about conflict, but if someone or two people go where you wanted to or needed to go, it can completely ruin your thing. And if if that isn't something that you like in a game, yeah, I can see why that would be like, yeah, no, I don't want to play it because everyone picked on me last time and didn't let me go from Atlanta to wherever. And that could leave, you know, a bit of a bad taste in someone somehow. So I I get why you might not like that.

Practicing dealing with conflict

SPEAKER_03 44:01

But I think for me the something that board gaming has done for me has kind of let me practice conflict and conflict resolution and dealing with conflict in a way that I had never really done before and something that I always found really, really tricky. Maybe it's just because I'm getting older and I don't care, I don't care as much anymore about. But I definitely think it's got something to do with the regular practising in a board game safe kind of setting. People doing something that ruins your plans intentionally sometimes, which is which is difficult. But also you have to do it back, which is something I'd never really done before. So I think it can it can be really good. Maybe for children that not having children, I I don't know, but maybe it can be good to practice that with children. Yeah, sometimes life isn't fair, is it? Sometimes somebody goes on both of your railroads from Atlantis or wherever and it ruins your plan. Yeah, there you go. Deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Deal with it. And how how are you gonna deal with it is is the question. No, I agree. I think I think conflict resolute. I think ballgaming made me more confident in conflict and even at work, right? So I I would always well used to avoid conflict like the plague. I'd hate it, it makes me feel uncomfortable. Me too. And and it hasn't changed. I still don't like conflict. I still don't relish it or or want to be in that situation. I I I really don't uh get anything out of it whatsoever. I find it most uncomfortable feeling ever. But I will do it. I will I don't shy away from it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

It's a necessary part of life, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 45:34

Yeah, it's it's like I'm happy, happy to kind of you know stick up for for certain you know situations with work, and you know, I'm happy to put my beak in um a lot more now than I've ever had to, and yeah, you know, and it's it's it's and I think a lot of that's you know down to board game for the past ten years where you you do just get stuck in. Yeah, it's like have it. Um but yeah, it's all good stuff.

What games that people recommend but might not be the best for new players?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Okay, let's let's get another question. So, what's the kind of gateway games that uh people suggest what you don't think is a gateway game? Or you think actually I don't know if I agree that should be the one you choose, and if so, why?

SPEAKER_03 46:15

I guess uh maybe ticket to ride, like I just mentioned that it's it is a it is an easy game, it's loved by many people, but it has got that f failure element, which I think can be really damaging. Yeah, if if you can't do your particular route or whatever. Yes, of course, some of it is balanced by are you a greedy person? Do you take more destinations when you shouldn't? But I think anything with a potential failure and irreversible sort of route, not roots, but irreversible choices about no absolutely nothing I can do now will make any difference. That can feel quite quite crushing.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

I'm just trying to think and it's a spirit island, it definitely isn't a gateway game, so no one would guess that. I'm just thinking that that looks very pretty and very colourful. It's it it would it could look it could deceive you by thinking it's quite simplistic because it looks very patchwork-y, I think. Yeah, and and it definitely isn't. Um the gateway games. I guess a lot of people might start with things like terraforming Mars because it's such a big common game. But I think it can take quite a long time and be quite quite a lot rests on your very first few moves. So again, if you've done that incorrectly or you haven't made the best choices, the whole rest of your game is is affected. So I think that can be really downheartening because you know, well, the rest of my games are I'm not I'm not gonna be able to achieve it now, and that can be very crushing, and then you've got to sit there for another however many hours knowing that uh that you're not gonna win, but you're not gonna do as well as you could have done. And I suppose if you can get used to games and you're happy to approach it in the way that you do, JP, like, well, this is just my first go. I'm gonna pull buttons and see what happens. That's a great attitude to have. And I I try to be more like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

No, no, everyone's got that.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

No, and I think I'm better at it now than I ever used to be, maybe just from sheer amount of times I've done it. And it's like, actually, yeah, do you know what it is? Okay, I'm not gonna do very well on this, but uh it's fine. So I think there is just a certain amount of maybe stuff you have to just do, and then eventually you feel more like that. So I think yeah, avoid games where you can really ruin the plan of your game in the first few goes, and it is completely irreversible.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yeah, no, no one likes that. I think for me wingspan is the one that I see a lot of people say, yeah, just get wingspan and uh and off you go. And I I fell victim of this quite well, fairly recently. Um, because I was out in the US and uh basically we with people we'll work with. Uh I've got colleagues that I work out in in the States and and they were like, Oh, you know, talking about board gaming, and I was like, Yeah, it's brilliant, da da da. And they said, Oh, well, what what do you recommend? And I was thinking of games that I recommend it, like for for new players, and I said, Oh, uh yeah, wingspan. And then they bought it. And then they said, Oh, we try to play it, but it's a big purchase as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Sort of 60 odd quid.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah, so we bought it and said we tried to play it, but we just didn't know. Um, and then we went over, I think it was February, me and Rob, and we went into board game cafe and they met us for for lunch. And and I said, I'll teach you it. And we did. I I taught them Wingspan and uh we got them through the game, and I think they're really appreciative. And so thank you so much, because now they know how to play it and off you go. But even when I was teaching it, I forgot. Um, I kind of simplified this game down more than it actually uh is um in my head. I thought that's just Wingspan, right? Yeah, and and actually then sitting there teaching it to literally a new board game player that has never really got into it, and the questions that you were getting, I was going, I've I've messed up here. Because the rule set there's a lot going on, there's combos of cards, there's this, then this, then this, and you know, and I just thought, oh yeah, I've I've bows this right off. But we got through it, we got through it, and they're fine now, but it's yeah, it made me realise I've got to be careful in certain recommendations because that could have gone the other way. I could have bought a board game and sat on the shelf, never played it again. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there we go. I think um we could probably talk about this whole topic for another 17 hours. It's it's so it's so kind of open, isn't it? And and I think you know, it in terms of getting new gamers to the hobby, we all want to do it, especially I think I I was more like evangelical about it in my earlier years because I was so excited, I wanted everybody to experience what I wanted to experience, and that's still there, but I'm less indoctrinating with it, like probably less creepy, like but I think the floor's like, no, you you have to do this because it's changed my life. So I need it to change your life. And you know, when I look at um, you know, trying to get my wife, uh, God bless her shell into gaming. It's I mean, she's like, I'll play, but it's not really my thing. I'd rather do this or that or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Doing for her what it does for you.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

No, and that's okay, right? And you have to kind of check yourself and realize that if you can't force people to enjoy it as much as you do, but if people do, brilliant, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Then you've got another another convert to IT Gamer.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Come in, come in, put be part of the gang. But no, I think I think it's such an important topic, one that we should continuously talk about um in in the hobby and what can we all do? You know, you guys at home, what can you do um to help uh kind of make people's first time experiences in the hobby, uh playing games, whether it's around people's houses in the events or whether it's at gaming conventions, and you know, you've turned up on your own, and you're like, I have no idea what this is all about. How can you make this more accommodating, more kind of open for people so they're more willing to stay? And and we should all do that and be less beardy.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

I don't think being less beardy, but at least look welcoming and and not answer people's questions, but make it make it show that people are welcome to come and just watch you play a couple of rounds.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

You know, or or they don't have to play, but they can, you know, just just watch for a start. And then they'll get them to play next time.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Exactly. So many innuendos in this this 100%.

PHASE D: LISTENERS QUESTION TIME

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Cool. I think we should get to the last part of the episode, Becky, if you're up for it. Um as part of the main episodes, I I've asked uh people in the Discord um server and uh people who kind of comment on YouTube and the socials to ask questions uh of the of the podcast. And I've actually got quite a lot to get through. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna chuck a couple um into this episode. So if you're up, you can help me answer some of them, get your opinion on it. Let's do it. So before I do that, I'm gonna hit the last thing for for nostalgia for you to turn us out there uh right now. There we go. Last question then, which is from Bob, also from our Discord server. Um, and he said, Why are we obsessed with by the cult of the new? Um, and a lot of these new games aren't as good as older classics, according to Bob. So why are we obsessed with it? Why do we want the new shiz?

SPEAKER_03 53:46

It's weird, isn't it? Because I'm absolutely and utterly invested in the new shiny thing. And I know you are JP, so we're singing from the same hymn sheet for this one. Oh, the new the new thing, especially if it's got expansions before you even played the first game, JP. Uh but but I think it's the hype, isn't it? It's this could be the game that answers all your game wants. The only thing I can liken that to is buying a new like handbag or something. You think, oh no, this one, this is the one that's gonna mean I'm more organized and better at life and do this thing. So maybe we're looking for that sort of unicorn of games that is just the right amount of chance versus planning, you know, whatever. And who doesn't like more shiny components and you know, no things? However, the trouble is you buy all the new things, a you then skin, but yeah, it is the old games in my house and in my collection that that trot out more often than any of the others. So yeah, Bob's right, he's absolutely right. Maybe the new ones just don't get the look in enough because we're still playing the old games, and for me, like I said earlier, that repetition of a game is really, really important for my enjoyment of the game long term. So maybe some of these new ones just aren't getting the airtime they deserve. I don't know, you've only got so much time though, haven't you? So do you play a game you know you're gonna love, or do you risk it for a biscuit and try an older one? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

That's the thing. I think um, yeah, I'm always looking at new. Uh I think most people are because the industry's geared for that. And most industries are geared for that. We want a newer car, we want a newer thing. Because newer is better, right? Isn't right um no, it's not always, but I think for me personally, um, what attracts me about the new is I'm looking for innovation in the in the in the industry or in the lobby. Yeah, um, so I like to see how games are progressing from how they have 10 years ago. You know, when you talk about Terraforming Mars 2016, that came out, now we're 10 years on. What are games doing now that are innovating back from 2016 or 2006 or or whatever, or 1996? Um, what are they doing that's that's really interesting and and different? And a lot of the times they're an amalgamation of of previous game mechanics and things, they blend together. And I I will be honest, I I get less excited um about new games, even though that's I still get them, but in terms of that buzz feeling, like, oh my god, this this thing has like really surprised me. Um, it it happens less and less and less, I think, the the longer you're in the hobby, which is normal because you see more, experience more, you don't get surprised as much. Um, but yeah, and Bob's got a point. There's some older classics that you will overlook for sure. And one example of that was when I played um Clans of Caldonia, an older game, just never got around to playing it. Um, I just you know, not that I didn't want to, it just didn't happen, time, whatever. And I had an opportunity to play it at a um uh a retreat recently. I bloody loved it. I said, This is fantastic. I said, I can't believe I've missed this. Um, and it gave me that excited feeling of of brilliant. So I I ended up picking it up in the end, and similarly happened with underwater cities. That was another one that passed me by.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

That's a really good game, actually.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

And it's like that was really good, and yeah, and I think there are a lot of old games that don't get the air time, and you know, you should definitely check out like if you're into the hobby because one are cheaper and generally they're more available. You can get them right now. You don't have to wait three years on crowdfunding.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

That's true. I guess look at look at Mike round the table with us the other day. He hadn't gamed for you know, I don't know, 20 years or whatever. Think how much stuff has changed in that time. So, you know, it new stuff can be innovative and and be exciting. However, some of those old classics are old classics for a reason. Yeah, there is a reason why Crock and Old is still a really, really popular game because it's brilliant. It's it's addictive in its simplicity, but just oh, I just want to do better this time. I will definitely, I understand it more now. I'm gonna do that's that's what keeps you playing again and again and again, isn't it? That wanting to sort of mastery of skill, I guess, or whatever, especially if it's simple and looks like it should be really easy. That brings you back and brings you back.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Yeah. But I think, yeah, why are we obsessed? I think is because we're human.

unknown 58:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

I think that's that's the answer. We're human and we are obsessed with new.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

We've been programmed through marketing works, isn't it? Otherwise, they wouldn't spend millions and millions of any of us that think that we're immune to marketing. I'm afraid you're kidding yourself there, because you are.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

No, I always know I've I've fallen into the trap if I'm on a YouTube video watching a playthrough of a game.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

I'm like, I'm already in.

SPEAKER_02 58:40

I've already invested enough time to watch an hour-long video on on a gameplay. I'm like, I know I'm gonna buy this, it's I'm done. It's just a matter of time.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Um, but there we go. Um, but I think we're there, Bex. I think uh we're at the end of the episode. It's been uh so lovely to to kind of podcast uh with you.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

Uh to me, thanks so much for asking me on.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

No, it's an absolute pleasure, and uh yeah, and I'm sure we'll we'll kind of bring you back and and who knows, maybe some other members of the team will jump on at some point as well and we'll have some kind of random chats about different things because I do miss you guys. Uh it is kind of weird podcasting on my own. Um, so it's quite nice to to bring bring some of the gang back and have a bit of a board game and chat. But yeah, thank you for coming on, mate.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

No worries, thanks again for having me.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

No worries.

PHASE E: THE LAST PLAY

SPEAKER_02 59:30

What an awesome experience to get Becky back on the mic. It's always great to get the uh the fellow who's turned team back, and yeah, it kind of it just brings back the feels, you know. It's really good and I love doing it. Maybe we'll do more reunion episodes in the future. Um, obviously, Whose Turn Is It Anyway isn't coming back in its full force. It's definitely uh been sunseted, but it's also nice to give it a bit of a nod because you know that's where I'll come from. And I'm uh very proud of that show and the team that are a part of it. So there you go. Uh, if you enjoyed this episode, you know what to do. You gotta like, you gotta comment, you've got to engage, and subscribe to this YouTube channel if you are watching the show. It really helps. Please, please do it. And uh, yeah, I really appreciate it, guys. Um, and if you want to support the show even further, I am on coffee, and you can do that by you know chucking a few quid my way. And basically, it levels up this, it levels up that, it levels up the show. We get to get bigger and bigger and better, and we can produce more content for you. So let's uh let's see if we can do that. That'd be brilliant. And for those that do support, and those are our coffee supporters, or as I call them, just players, you're awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you, definitely. Um, all that's left to say is you only grow old when you stop playing. Take care, everyone.