OPENING

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I've spent far too many hours watching the Easy Board Games channel instead of playing games, so it's only right I get ASAF on the channel so we can have a good old chinwai about cardboard. Welcome to the Just Play podcast, but this is a special episode of Just Play with Others, where I'm joined by Asaf from Easy Board Games. So let's waste no time and jump over and meet the man himself. Asaf, welcome to the channel, my friend.

PHASE A: PULL UP A CHAIR

SPEAKER_03 0:35

How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

AJP, thank you. Good, good, good. Thank you so much for having me, man. I uh I really appreciate it. Very excited. I was waiting for this one.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Yes, yes. We've been talking about this for a good few months, and I'm gonna get you on, man. And you're like, yeah, yeah, come on then. Get on with it. And I we we finally just finally done it. I know we got there. We got there eventually. Just bloody holidays, right? It's like, yeah, I've got this. I've been traveling around with work a lot, holiday. I honestly it's been like a six-week period of where I've not been at home. And I think over the total of six weeks, I've been at home like three days. It's been absolutely crazy, but it's been fun. It's been fun, but oh my god, it's nice to be be at home again.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Like the the the good kind of crazy, the crazy that you like having.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Yeah, I love that crazy, but it's like, oh, but I also missed my bed. But there we go. That's just shows you a little bit more about sure. So we met each other for the first time. And I've I first followed your channel way back, um, and I think it was the Apex Legends content you did uh for Glass Cannon and Playboy. Okay, right. So that's the first time I I stepped into easy board games, and yeah, I loved what you did. I loved how you kind of brought that world and that game to life and your passion um for the games. And I was like, oh yeah, he sounds like a good dude. And then when whatever it was way back in the year when um we both met in person at uh David Tursey's retreat in in the Netherlands, right? And it's like, oh, Asaf's coming, cool, I get to meet Asaf. And uh and there we go. That that's how we met, right? We met in person at that retreat, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Pretty much about that, yeah. I I remember actually uh uh seeing you, and I'm thinking, like, whoa, they they even managed to bring here like an SAS soldier. That's pretty impressive of them. I'm like, all right, right, let's see what does he know about bearing grills. But uh yeah, that was uh that was a lot of fun, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah, no, it was a great, it was a great weekend, very hot weekend from memory. I I remember that that that lake in the middle being a uh kind of respite for for for the period.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I just need a call off because it's you mean yeah, you mean the lake sweat that we had in the right? Yeah, yeah, then yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, yeah, that's the one, mate. That's the

PHASE B: INTRODUCING ASAF

SPEAKER_03 2:55

one. Um, so yeah. So what I like to do is Af, I like to uh introduce um kind of yourself or let the the listeners and viewers uh get a chance to know you a little bit better, and what better way to do that is to talk a little bit about games. So the first question up for you, my friend, is

What have you "Just Played" recently

SPEAKER_03 3:11

um what have you just played recently? What's hit your table?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So actually, um it's funny that you're saying that because you know you you can see behind me I have two boxes, right? I got some.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Oh, I can see.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah. Uh and yeah, and then War of the Ring. Now, don't get me wrong, it has nothing to do with your podcast. I just realized, like, oh my god, I'm going to be in front of people, and my computer is situated that the kitchen is just behind me. I need to bring something to make it look a little bit that I'm like a board gamer. Let's just grab like the two first boxes that I'm seeing and put them behind me. But uh no, the game that is actually set up right now on my table is worth the ring. I'm going to have a session a little bit later on today. Um so that's basically what is on my table right now. Before that, I'm actually going to cover uh sometime soon Gang Wars, which is the new title from Reds and Games uh in the same world of Scarface 1920.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

So I'm very excited about that because I I really uh enjoy Scarface. I think it's a phenomenal game. Um and I think that before that, like during the week with my friends, we played Dark Blood. So that was like the last title that I actually played with uh with my group.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Nice, yeah. What was that like? Was that good?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Um I mean I I was uh we were all basically uh really disappointed from this game. Uh it really didn't hit the the right spot for us. Uh first of all, it was much lighter than what I anticipated it to be. I thought it's going to be a little bit more meaty, but it's a very uh short game that I felt didn't have a lot of depth there. Um yeah, I don't want to, you know, uh sound extremely negative, but like I just you know, right off the bat, hey, this is a stuff. I ate board games. No, no, so it was just like uh yeah, so it's just like it wasn't for us, and uh I decided this game needs to find like another home. But there's other wonderful board games out there.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

Yeah, I mean there's very many of them. If you don't like one, you you're sure as hell gonna find many others that you're gonna like, it's just the way it goes, right? Absolutely. Okay, well, let's talk about ones you do like then.

What are your favourite board games?

SPEAKER_03 5:30

So the the sometimes hardest question to ever answer is what's your favorite? Or what are your favorites? Because sometimes it's good to pick three.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that I think that's uh I think in anything that you're asking someone, hey, what's your favorite? It's very difficult to pick only one, right? Favorite book, favorite movie, favorite for me. It's never it's impossible. It's impossible. You you can appreciate a masterpiece of a movie. I don't know, like for me, it will be Requiem for a Dream. But I can also enjoy maybe, yeah, I but I can also enjoy maybe a movie like uh I don't know, uh think like American History X, you know? They're good, they can be like different, you know, different, or someone can like really enjoy watching Terminator 2. Yeah, you know, that can be a really an uh another movie that they would like to see, but it's really difficult, so I agree with you, to only pick one. Yeah, back to board games. I would say that like on my top list, I have uh, first of all, Sid Mary Civilization from 2010. I'm a huge 4X fan, 4X is my favorite genre, and this is my top 4X game uh that I ever played. Uh then of course War of the Ring. If we're already, you know, stand it on the table. War of the Ring for me, it's another uh masterpiece of a game. Company of Heroes is absolutely phenomenal. Um, you know, tactical, uh kind of war game that has like an economical aspect, and um Tricarian from the Eurogame genre. Uh Trian is just you know, Jeff skis. So good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

So good. Yeah, I love a bit of Trikeria. Have you played the um uh the the mini, I say mini expansion, but the I forgot what it's called. What's the little one they released recently? Yeah, why can't I remember what it's called? Yeah, they wanted it's it's okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Sure, sure. Uh it's uh so they released it with like their 10-year anniversary. It's some sometimes hard to believe this game is from 2015. It holds until like it went out basically yesterday, you know. Yeah, uh really an incredible game. I haven't played it, okay. Uh, to be honest, I haven't played it. And usually when I played Trickarion, I would probably rather play the base game. I have, you know, all the expansions, whatever. But just the base game is so freaking good and very tight, you know. Um, yeah. So this is this is usually how I would play the game.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

I mean, good great choice with Civ 2010. I mean, that that's a bona fide classic, in my opinion. That that uh friend of mine's got a copy, and I mean I don't have it, but I don't need to, he's got it. Um, and he's he's got uh the expansions which are rare as rocking horse poop uh to get hold of as well. Um and and every now and we we we get that to the table, it's always a joy. I mean it's it's it's probably a little fiddly because it's from its age, it's lots of little bits and bobs, but it's it's probably the truest, isn't it? It's the truest civilization um experience in the board game to you know video game. It's just it's fantastic. I love playing that game.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Oh Tech Trees absolutely, yeah. I and and you know what? I I uh I remember that when I was looking basically, you know, a board game that would be like uh the game that I played at the time, it was like uh Civilization 6, right? So I looked for something, and uh the thing that was available was the new Dawn version of Mary Civilization, yeah. And I got extremely disappointed, even with the expansion Terra Incognita or something like that. I was extremely um yeah, uh uh uh disappointed, and then someone told me, uh, listen, you should get the 2010 version uh and get it with the two extensions, like you just everything together, and like you said, it took me some time to find like you know the game and the expansions because they're really uh I'll ring like a mother lover. Uh but when I got this, uh it's just it's just the twist to the video game, you know? Um so so in terms of if someone is looking for a 4X civilization game that is oriented like around the civilization, this is the one. If you're looking for a 4x that will be more around combat, I might I might suggest Clash of Cultures Monumental Edition, probably.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah, there we go. I mean, you did recently did a video, didn't you, about 4X, your favorite 4X games. Um, I enjoyed that one a lot. It was nice to see what what sort of uh kind of areas of 4x do you like playing with, and sounds like all of them.

unknown 10:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

The surprising thing is that there are not a lot of true for X games. No, you have a lot of like three and a half, three, three and a half, which I uh it's so funny to say three, three and a half, it's just it's so it's not a four X game. So why do we even need to, you know, say so it's like you know, it's adjacent to four, so it's not a four X. That's what you're telling me, it's not a four X. Yeah, but uh true for X games, they're just not a lot out there, you know? So the ones that you do manage together, um in some cases they're really good, so this is why I did like those top ten lists, yeah. Yeah, what by the way, what's what's your favorite uh for X game? Oh what did you what which one do you enjoy?

SPEAKER_03 10:58

I mean, so yeah, Civ 2010 for sure is is right up there. Um I've what else do I like? I mean, because even like TI is not fully 4X, is it? Like Twilight Imperium, it's it's they they with the expansion they added a bit more in exploration, but only a little bit, but you don't really explore. Um it's kind of a pretend to explore.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I'll be honest, I I never played uh Twilight Imperium, I never played it. So when people hear that, they're like, oh, so you're not really a 4X, you know, uh, you know, lover, fan, whatever. Yeah, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm if I can still invest 10, 13 hours like in one game, you know. That is like, but I know that one day I will try.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

So you got to try it.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I think you know, one day.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah, it's yeah, it's a rite of passage for people to try it to even go, that was great, I'm never doing it again. Or that was that was great, or actually, I loved it, but I want to do it once a year. That's where I'm at with T. I I I tend to go, I play once, maybe twice a year max, and and I'll leave it alone because it is a lot. Like I I come out the end of the day like I've been in a washing machine, you know, spun around. Um, because it's not just all all the um you know the ships and the combat and and all of that kind of stuff, it it's the politicking that you're doing in the game, and there's a lot of politicking in in TI, and it can drain it drains you, all in the best way, but it at the end of the day, you're like, I I feel more tired doing this than going to work, and and that's just a absolutely, but I love it, and it's there.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

No, no, it's a it's it's absolutely legitimate. I'm just thinking, look, of course, uh again, I will try this game at some point. I'm just saying, like, I think that today if I'm looking for more of like a negotiation kind of you know game, yeah. Yeah, uh, I think the John Company second edition is so high up there, you know. Uh and and it's yeah, and and it's shorter than you know, 10 hours of playing.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So uh yeah, so I don't know, we'll see it. We'll see it.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

But we we talked but we talked about this before. I mean, I wouldn't say it's my favorite, but I enjoy March of the Ants as a 4X experience. It's streamlined in a way that it doesn't last all frigging night, and it's like you can get on with that game. And I I actually quite like it, it's really good.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Um, but yeah, I need to it's a fantastic game. Yeah, fantastic game, absolutely. Uh they did their Tim Eisner uh and uh Ryan Swisher, I want to say, yeah, yeah, or something like that. Sounds right, yeah. So so they they did their they did their uh fantastic job. Yeah, fantastic job.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, and thematically, what's not to love about ants destroying each other? So it's it's great fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Well

How did Asaf get into the hobby?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

so so moving, so moving on now, Saf. Um, how did you get in the hobby? Like when when did you first um dabble in in the cardboard and board gaming? Have you been doing it for a long, long, long, long time, or have you is it a fairly recent experience?

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah, so uh to be honest, it it's uh it's quite random how I got into it. Uh and actually you you met my girlfriend Lydia when we were on the retreat in the Netherlands. Yeah, um, so basically, uh we met uh I think around 2020, something like that. And um uh I was a heavy uh you know PC gamer. I just I played a lot, and at some point she started to be bored. And when my girlfriend is bored, then things are starting to be dangerous around the house, you know. So yeah, like I I just rather entertain her in whatever kind of way, just don't be bored. Anyway, so I don't really say there are a couple of board games that I know at the time it was like Stratego and Risk. That's the only things you know that I knew. And uh let me try and teach it to you. It's like maybe if you would like it, that will be great. She really didn't like them, and then I told her, you know what? You do the research online, and um, whatever you find a board game that you it sounds like cool to you, just order it and and we'll play it. So a couple of days after, I'm like looking at my eBay and I'm seeing that like I got charged for like 150 euros, and I'm thinking, which freaking board game cost 150 euros? How naive was that, you know, that's thinking that the game scene cost only 150 euros. Yeah, anyways, I'm receiving this box, this 10 kilogram box that is called Gloomhaven. And Gloomhaven was the first game, you know, the more than a board game that they actually played.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

You know, so yeah, I swear to God, and from there it was just like you know, down the rabbit hole, you know, you're trying this, and and then you know the rest. I mean, it's ancient history.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Yeah, it's it's uh it's the age-old tale of time, isn't it? Where you you get your first game into the hobby and you go, Wow, what the hell is this? I want more of this, please. Let's get more of it. And then you end up with five board games, and then you end up with 25, and then do you then you try and collect them all like Pokemon, like literally, you try and get them all, and then you realize it's you I can't have them all. I there's no point in owning them all, I can't play them all. So then you call them all, and then you go back. It's just a weird thing we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

And to be honest, I I think that I think that that like we're joking about it, but I think that this realization that you cannot have them all because you're not going to play them all is such an important realization, you know, it's almost sometimes like an epiphany, you know, yeah, that you're having this and you're like, wow, I need to calm the fluff down because I will just not manage to uh play all of this. So what do I really like? You know, and then you're starting to you know cut down your collection, and this is such an important, you know, moment in a board game uh player, I want to say life, yeah. Then it's like I I I I think it's super important, it's really serious, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah, because it's it's about how you're curating and managing that that collection to a point where, as I say, it's manageable, but also financially manageable because you can get the FOMO, you can get the thing that I have to have this, I have to own this, and and then you go, well, why? Why why so I can look at it on the shelf and never not never play the damn thing. Um, and it's amazing how you do feel about games initially. And I'm I'm guilty of this even now, and I have to stop myself and check myself, which is you know, you you think, oh, that looks cool, and then you're researching it, and you're already if you're researching a game, you know you're probably gonna be buying that game at some point. You're on that that that kind of journey, aren't you? Yeah, and then you're like need to just do I need that? No, you don't need it. Play the bloody ones you've got. You've got like 200 of them, just play them for a bit, and then but then what I do now is I cycle I cycle a lot of my collection, um, which I'm more than happy to do. I I kind of know that if I'm buying a game, it might only live on my shelf a year, might be two years, might be three. Sometimes they're rare and they'll stick around for a long time. But I'm alright with that because I'll sell them, all right, lose a bit of money, but um, it's it's still worth it for entertainment value. If I get three, four plays out of a game and then I decide I've had enough, that's still worth the the entertainment value for me. So yeah, yeah, it's it's an interesting.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Oh, I I I agree with you 100%. I think I think that in you know, it a little bit goes two ways. Like I think people should buy in a responsible kind of way. Yes, but I also think like if you're like already so interested in a game, just just buy it, you know. So, okay, you will sell it for 80, 85% of what you got for. It's not the end of the world, you know. I still think that you need to not buy any like everything, but if you're already interested and you're like thinking yes, no, yes, no, just pull the trigger and it is fine, you know. Uh as long as you can be honest with yourself regarding uh uh you know, looking at your collection and telling yourself which games here I'm really not going to play. You know, you're looking there. I'm sure that everyone that is watching it right now, if they're going to go to their collection, you know, and stare at it for like I don't know, 15 minutes, they'll be like, you know what? This game, there's no freaking way it comes to my table in the next two years. So why is it here? Yeah, you know, why it just takes real estate, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah, and that's the thing. The spaces the the thing that got me is when I started to run out of space. And then I was like, well, what am I gonna do? Knock another room out and put more games in it. No, I'm not gonna do that. So so everything every game had to earn its space, it had to earn it. And it's like if you don't earn your space by not getting played, well, you're going. And and I think most people get to that point, and sometimes sooner, if they haven't got a large uh space. I mean, and some people are fortunate to have massive rooms with wall-to-wall Kallax shelving with them in, but uh others, others aren't, you know, and and that's okay. It doesn't matter if your collections 10 games or or a thousand, really, but it's just as long as you can um yeah, maintain and and if it gives you pleasure, man, whatever. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, yeah, uh yeah, as long as again, if you're honest with yourself and think, you know what, um less of a player and more of a collector. Perfect. You know, some people have like 15 cars, even though they just need one to go to work, you know. That's like true. No problem, just be honest.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Yeah, that's very true.

PHASE C: EZBOARDGAMES INTERVIEW

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Right. So let's let's move on to to your channel then. Uh so easy ball games. So yeah, why why why'd you do it? Why why why'd you follow it, man?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Uh it's it's a good question. It's a good question. Uh so basically, uh again, going back to Gloomhaven, you know, as someone who's going from risk to Gloomhaven, the gap is is huge in terms of like the complexity of the rules. So at some point, like we started to look uh on YouTube like on videos that can explain how to play the game. And we're actually going from one video to another, and and we're like, okay, we finished watching like a 45 minutes video, let's go to the table. And you go to the table, and I felt like wait, I still don't know what I need to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

So another video, you know, and another channel, and and etc. And of course, not only with Gloomhaven, but with other games. And then at some point I was like, you know what? I think that I would like to have a different approach um towards teaching games. So I don't believe in all of this. Learn how to play Twilight Imperium in 17 and a half minutes. Like I you who are we lying to? You know, you're not going. To teach me how to play you know toilet imperial in 17 and a half minutes, and I'm going to end up just like clicking it because it's a clickbait and then just spending more time on looking for another video. So I I wanted to start this channel basically and do something that is like between a mix of like a how to play and a playthrough. Okay, so I'm going to do I I like to call it explanatory playthrough. Okay, I'm going to play the game, but as I'm explaining exactly what's going on, and give you like the uh the rule book page reference at the bottom of the screen.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Right? So you can because because of my freaking accent, people like just cannot bear this. So, like, you know what? Let me just check where what you're talking about in the rule book, you know, just in case. Uh yeah. So this is what got me into it.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I love your accent.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah, yeah, great. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. But yeah, yeah. So this is how I started the channel, but very quickly I went like um from the beginning, I went all in.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

So that means like from the beginning, I had like uh one or two cameras, tripods, you know, the light, the soft boxes, the microphone. Like I told myself, if I'm going to do this, like if I'm going to try, yeah, then I'm going all the way. No phone, you know. Immediately I started editing on uh um how does it call? Uh the one from uh Adobe Pro Pro something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Premiere pro. Exactly, exactly. From the beginning, I'm like, what this is the heaviest, fine, I'll start with this because you know, it's in any case, it's fresh. So this is how I started. And I remember my first video, my first video was like how to play Katan. Okay, which was you know, it was just for me because I felt the most comfortable with it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

And then I think I went like with uh uh letters from Whitechapel. And then at some point, because it was like one video per month, and I told myself, okay, are you going to do this or are you not going to do this? Because one video per month is just not going to cut it. Like if you're going to do one video per month, you're you're like full gas neutral, you know, you're not going to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

So I'm like, okay, I need to be more serious about it. So I started to add like maybe a review, you know, maybe like a preview of a game, maybe a small unboxing. Um, I started to have like this series on my channel that I like, and that is like uh um uh the top one, not the top, sorry, like the perfect board game collection of 100 games, no more and no less. And this is where I'm limiting myself, like with 100 games. And if a game comes in, then a game must go out. So I'm sharing with the audience, yeah, exactly. Like, why did I decide to take this game out? So it's like also like mini reviews, and this is what gave the channel like a bit more, you know, volume, um, a bit more content in it.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

Nice, so it's all started. Yeah, Gloomhaven's got a lot to answer for, hasn't it? Really? Let's let's face it.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, yeah. That was dude. I saw Gloomhaven recently, not because I just like I played it uh so many years, just because it had like sentimental value for me, you know? Yeah, like I just couldn't get this game out of the house just because you know it it's what started everything. So yeah.

What was the first video you did where you thought, this is working

SPEAKER_03 25:28

So so basically, so you started your journey, you're doing your videos. What was the first video that you did where you actually thought to yourself, wow, this this actually might work. This this is actually going in the right direction. Because look, I've I'm I'm there and I'm probably still there, right? Where where you're you you start a channel off and you're you're addicted to looking at the analytics page in YouTube Studio, right? You're addicted to it at the start, and you're looking at every day and you're checking and you're checking, you're checking. And sometimes the best thing to do, as people have told me many times, is just to ignore that and just keep doing it. Because when you're new, you're you're learning, you're doing different things, you're trying to find your feet, and all that kind of stuff. And and you can probably get discouraged when you go, yay, I've got three views on my video, but everyone's got to start somewhere. But so, what was that video? What was the turning point for you?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

So, first of all, I I cannot agree. Like, uh I'm I really identify with what you're saying, you know. No, I really uh hear you, and I think that people that are saying, you know, just don't look at it and continue. I'm like, I I don't think that's feasible. I'm telling you that I'm checking YouTube studio um uh maybe 20 times per day to see what's going on, to see if there is a new comment, to see if something maybe goes up, if a video is already dead, etc. Uh constantly. I think that the first uh there so there are going to be a couple of videos that I thought, okay, this might have like something. The first one was uh a video from three years ago, uh my top four X uh board games, but it was like uh 15 minutes video, four X games, yeah, and it got exploded, at least in my terms. Yeah, you know, like suddenly watching, I'm like, oh my god, I have like this letter K. Like, oh my god, there are more than a thousand people that want to watch this video. This is crazy, yeah, you know. And uh the second video was like a teach video that I did for Void Vall. So Paul Grogan did his how to play video, it was like a classic how to play. Yeah, and I did like a three-part of like, I'm just going to play the game, the entire game. I played the entire game, and Nigel Backel, uh, the great Nigel Bacle actually, you know, checked my videos and like you know, gave me feedback, and I put this and people like started to comment like, oh my god, you took such a complex game and you broke it down in a way that I know now how to play void for. And this feeling that someone is telling you, especially when you have like a teach channel, you help me learn this game. I'm like, maybe, maybe I'm doing something good here, you know? And uh that that gave me a huge boost, you know. That's amazing. And I'm like, all right, I'm going with this.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Yeah, that's it. It's when you get that feedback and you go, someone gets it, someone gets this. Finally, I've found my audience, you know. And I think that's the whole thing with YouTube, anyway, right? Is is you're trying to find your audience with your videos, and that is never as simple as as I've just made it out to be, because there's so many people out there consuming content on YouTube, and finding them and connecting the dots is is half half the battle, right? But yeah, to get that feedback, especially from Nigel as well, who, you know, is a prolific designer of of many a complex game like Void Fall and Imperium. Um, yeah, that must have felt good, man. That must have been like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Oh my god. Oh my god. I I remember like I remember calling calling my girlfriend. I'm telling you, oh my Lydia, you were like that. I'm talking to Nigel Backel and he liked my video, you know, and I you know it's crazy. People are telling me that they like it. It's uh yeah, it was it was pretty awesome.

Engagement for small channels is so important

SPEAKER_00 29:11

But you know, when I I think that we we talked about it also, and especially for for these for us, you know, new small channels. Um, I think that the viewers sometimes don't understand how important their feedback is to us, you know. More than the like button or the share button, when they're writing a comment saying, like, hey, uh I liked your video because ABC or I disagree with you on XYZ or whatever, it is so uh important to receive that. Yeah, yeah, because board games is such a small niche. If you take almost any other field out there, fishing, hunting, video games, uh building libraries, whatever, and you put like a YouTube of this, you might as well get like 50,000 subscribers within a month, yeah, you know, yeah, uh, and people will comment and whatever, and you like you will be able to see it very quickly. We really need to fight and scrap every like subscriber comment, you know. We're we're we're trying to do that, and uh yeah, so I I agree with you. This feedback of like, oh my god, someone actually sees me and and engaging it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Yeah, it and it is great when you get that, and like when people do it to my videos and people comment, and yeah, it's just it's just awesome just to interact. And I I make sure that I spend time to you know interact and reply to everybody. Now, if there ever gets to the point where channels get so big where it's physically impossible without having a team, I mean that'd be a day, wouldn't it? But generally, as it is right now, I'm gonna make sure everybody gets a reply, everyone's gonna get one, and and it's important because if you've taken the time to type out a message on a video that you've watched all the way to the end and spend 45 minutes of your time doing, then you're gonna it's the least I can do. That's the least I could do.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

So I yeah, I freaking love that you said it, JP. Honestly, I I I feel exactly like that. Yeah, and and look, uh let's not be naive, sure, when you have maybe like when within the one hour, you know, I'm talking about bigger channels. When you have within one hour uh 400 comments, yeah, I understand that it's difficult. I understand that it's difficult to answer everyone to the point. Um not to mention that maybe there is uh three videos from last week that you got received, like you know, new comments that you need to answer to.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

But I'm I'm saying that as long as it's manageable, do it, answer to people. It is so important because that person, just like you said, spend time watching the video, effort in writing a comment, interacting with you, engaging. I think the minimum you can do is engage back.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

100%. There we go. We'll get we're getting passionate, aren't we? That's what we do. We're getting passionate. I love it. I'm here for it.

What's the one thing you want people to know about you?

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Um, there's a question I've got for you though, is um, what's the kind of one thing you want um our listeners uh and slash viewers um to know about you that's beyond your videos? So what who is the ASAF behind easy board games? Because I know you do so like it's a traveling and things that you you're quite passionate about, I've seen. But what else? Yeah. Like what?

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah, yeah. Uh look, I'll be honest with you. I've been uh I I've I moved around a lot uh in the past two years. Uh I moved from from Paris to uh Geneva in Switzerland, then back to Paris to another city, then moved again here to Poland, and here in Wroclavi in Poland where I live currently, I'm already managed to move to another apartment. So this whole craziness, you know, and in the same time still trying to do content and you know, trying to uh it's been a little bit too brutal. It's going to sound uh I don't know, probably bad. Okay. I don't know if there is a lot, I don't know if there is a lot outside of board games for me right now. Yeah, since that glue, it has been board games from the moment I wake up, I and that is the last thing that I do before I go to sleep. It's not like a cliche, you know? Yeah, so I it's funny, I don't have the phone next to me, but I I would have showed you like my screen, you know? Yeah, and you have like shortcuts. So on my phone, I have four shortcuts. I'm like, first of all, Facebook to see if someone commented on the last post that I did. Yeah, then I'm moving on to BGG to see if there is like deals for games that I'm looking for, like the expansion for StarCraft or something. Okay, the next one is YouTube Studios and then Discord, right? To see if like something is new. Yeah, and that is the first thing that I do when I wake up the morning, and that is probably the last thing that I'm doing when I go to sleep. Yeah, so if I'm like really trying to force it and like what's beyond uh board games, then yeah, I used to travel a lot. Uh usually uh it's uh trekking, you know, so like uh hiking, but a bit more I don't know, like I really like wild camping tent, you know, outside, uh just yet you know, walk for a few days uh in the wilderness. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm I'm not Aragorn, yeah, wilderness, let's keep it in proportion. But um uh but yeah, but but you know, just just traveling in different countries. So I I I managed to travel quite a lot, to be honest. Uh that is probably the the second thing that I'm most passionate about. Yeah, but

What does JP do outside of board games?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

but actually, uh if I can actually return the question, because I I I remember that even I I wanted to ask you that in in the Netherlands.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Oh, go on.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

First of all, I have no idea what's your day job. I don't know if you feel comfortable talking about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not even sure I don't know about that, but also because I see you have such a cool studio behind you, yeah. Not like my oven here uh that you have behind me, but like there's so so many things that I'm I'm curious about. If and if you can share anything with that, I'll be very happy.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Oh, yeah, sure thing, man. Um, yeah, my my day job is I I run my own business consultancy. So in English, what does that actually mean? That means I do um business transformation. I I basically do like project management for for companies. I I help them transform from A to B, either through systems, implementations, and things like that. I I basically, it's the reason why I have no hair. It's I'm dealing with lots of stress and and people and business change and people not wanting to change and things like that. That's what I do is my day job. I work with many different companies and clients um now around the world since COVID's come, because COVID has opened up my business to being international now than used to be just my little pocket and corner of the southwest of the UK. So yeah, it's it's it's been it's been a crazy, crazy uh ride. So yeah, so I'll deal with all of that kind of stuff. So that keeps me busy, it keeps the mortgage being paid. Um but it does, but it does also keep me away from my passion and and hobby being you know board gaming. Uh otherwise I'd be doing it full-time. Maybe, maybe one day, right? Maybe one day I'll I'll I'll look to do that full time. That'd be cool. Um, but yeah, I my studio for those that people can see is is a shrine to everything in the 1980s, right? So um pretty much it's 80s related memorabilia. So this thing here, what's the point now? That thing there's from the Goonies. That is the Goonies map and the key from the Goonies. Um and oh that's uh what's his name, man?

SPEAKER_00 36:42

John, yeah. Uh right? What's the the actor's name? It was his first like big role.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Well, you've got uh Sean Astins, uh um who's the who plays uh Samwise in Lord of the Rings. It's his yeah, in the Goonies. Okay, and John Josh Brolin. Josh Brolin, yeah. Yes. That's yes. He play he played the older brother, didn't he? He's Thanos. So it's like, yeah, yeah. So he was there. Yeah, he's there. So all the movie posters are pretty much from the 80s, but yeah, very cool, very cool. So that's kind of me. I I just loved that era. Um, and then generally things I like to do that aren't board games, I don't get to do it often enough, but snowboarding, man, is my other passion. I love snowboarding. Um, I I last went in January, which is great because I've not been for a few years before that. And but with family and everything else, money, I I'd do it every year if I could. I would do it every year, but it's it's balance, man. Gotta balance things.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

And where do you go usually? Like you you would go to like uh France, Switzerland, Bulgaria, like what's your frequency of it?

SPEAKER_03 37:51

France typically, if I'm going with a family, last time we went was Andorra. Um, it's actually really good. Um slightly a little bit cheaper to take everybody in the family, and it's more family friendly in that respect. But um, yeah, France, I've been to Italy uh before boarding, and uh yeah, god I freaking love it, man. There's there's nothing else escapism-wise being on top of a mountain, like all your problems have gone away because all you care about is do I go down that way or do we go down that way? And don't and try not to die. And try not to die.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

That's it. That's all that's all you've got mental capacity for. But I suppose that's why I like games. Um, is it it takes me to that similar brain space of it doesn't matter what problems I've got going on in my life or how stressed I feel, if I'm in the middle of a euro, like a heavy lacerda, for example, I ain't got time to worry about that. I can't think about it because everything is like everything's gone out the other end, and I'm in, I'm present. There's I'm basically so present in that moment, I'm more present there than than anywhere. So yeah, I love that. That's yeah. There you go. You know, I'm a bit about me.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

I I absolutely first first of all, thank you, thank you for sharing, man. This is a pleasure. You know, just you know, yeah, just the small thing. So we have another thing in common because I I did some trekking in Andor and I absolutely loved it. So uh it's very cool that you've been there uh as well. Yeah, uh yeah. So Andor, for those who don't know, it's like this small uh principality. I want to say between France and Spain. Very cool place, uh, no taxes, so alcohol and tobacco, really cheap, you know. That's our place to check out. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah, it's it's in the Pyrenees Mountains, right? Which is the the border of France, Spain. Yeah, and it's just it's like yeah, you fly into Barcelona and you're like, cool, I'm in Spain, and then well, I'm going snowboarding in Spain. Well, you're not in Spain, because as you said, it's separate, but it's it's cool, it's a cool little place. I really like it.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah, very cool, very cool. Um, but I I I absolutely agree with you that when you're playing a game, you're just so invested in it, yeah. You know, you're so into that you just don't have around you. Yeah, and I feel that sometimes when you're in this, like, you know, um like wheel, you know, you're like a hamster running in the wheel that is called life, you know. And sometimes we just take a break from that, yeah. And you put, you know, and and it's important for me today, by the way. I used to be a heavy uh PC gamer. Today I cannot play almost anything on the computer, I just can't, you know. Just this feeling of taking this physical thing and put it on the table is just I get goosebumps just from like looking at my copy of War of the Ring, there is it on the table. So yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly that. Yeah, so so it feels good, and it feels that for just for a few hours, you're outside of this wheel and you're just doing something else.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah, and I want to add another thing.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I want to I have to add another thing to something that you said. Uh hopefully we're still good with the time. Wait, good.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

You carry on, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

But uh you said that maybe one day you'll do it um uh like you know, full-time job. Yeah, so uh I don't have children, okay, and I'm not married. I have a wonderful girlfriend, but you know, when you're even when you're married without children, you're basically dating. Like, don't kid yourself, right? So uh I mean it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

It is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

What I want to say, um you have one life, right? Like today, August 24th, four o'clock Central European time, will never come back again. That this is it, man. That's it. Yeah, so if we have one chance to do something, I don't want to sound you're like uh part of the Eminem movie or something, but you have like you know, this one chance of like being truly happy, you know, uh at some point, of course, with responsibility, but at some point, yeah, you should try and take it, or at least at least try. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. At least try. Because that is that is it, man. What we got today, like that's it, man, you know, exactly. And time passes so quickly.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Oh, how hell yeah. And I'm I'm 45 now, and I you know, and I'm thinking, oh, I'm coming up to 50 soon. And you're like, oh that that that wow, okay, that's a thing. And yeah, no, it it it's weird, like you you question not like you question your mortality, but you you naturally do question your mortality more about it, and and time is always is the most precious resource that we have, um, it's the most valuable thing that we have. Absolutely. So yeah, I I completely hear you, and um, I think definitely it's it's something I will do. I I'm quite good at that. I mean, I'm lucky I do enjoy my work. Um, so it's like if I it's not like I hate it and it's it's awful. Um, and it does it does provide lots of benefits for us as a family and things like that. But no, if I was to be selfish, if I was to be selfish, I would just burn it all and do something else. But no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is what it is, it is what it is. Um, cool. For

How do you balance honesty & kindness in your views in your videos?

SPEAKER_03 43:14

sure. Another question for you then, mate. Um, so how do you like one of the things I think you're you're very good at is balancing um kind of the honesty with with kindness in your in your videos? And so if you know, if you've got a game that you don't like, just as you said earlier, there are going to be games that you just think they're just not for me for whatever reason. Um, yeah, it's like how how do you balance that? Do you think about that in a kind of methodical way or logical way in how you portray it? Or is it you is it just naturally you, my friend? Is it yeah? Do you like you got you got video and you go, you know, I don't like that, and you need to be conscious that I can't just slag this thing off. I have to be, I have to approach this in the right way. Yeah, how do how do you?

SPEAKER_00 44:00

approach that so first of all first of all thank you uh really uh so much it it means a lot to me honestly especially coming from you jp because i do appreciate you personally a lot so thank you um look uh i'll tell you something i used to be in my early early days i used to be uh much more brutal with my opinions okay so i would have said something no oh oh really honestly yeah i would have said something like oh wingspan is a terrible game that i hate you know i would you know i could have said something like that and then i i started uh hanging out with a guy that i'm sure you know his name is alex radcliffe he has also a channel called board game code okay right yeah yeah and uh and throughout the conversations that i had with him and like some some meetings that we had together i started to understand okay i know it sounds silly that you need to understand it but i i started to to that you know to understand myself that a game that might not be good uh to me that i don't enjoy other people might enjoy you know i cannot expect everyone to enjoy frostpunk or starcraft or whatever because it's not for everyone you know and and actually usually it's going to be on the other side like i will not like more games you know like span um i don't know uh whether that's the first side i don't know even though i enjoyed it for a certain period but what i'm saying is that with time i started to understand that uh the games that i don't enjoy doesn't mean that they're not good yeah they're just not good for me for what i'm looking for so i will try to keep that in mind and always look for positive things i'll give you an example there is a uh game called um rise of the wastelands yeah it's a very light 4x game okay and i i so i i uh uh backed it on kickstarter received it i was disappointed for my own reasons but still i can recommend this game today to people that are maybe starting their 4x adventure you know journey yeah so i would try to balance it a little bit but uh i'll be again i'll be honest i think that uh uh companies or uh and in general people but let's talk about companies should be uh called for when they are messing up yes yeah you know uh bad rule book uh a ton of errata um i don't know problems with manufacturing properly you know we're in 2026 yeah absolutely we are as as backers as players as viewers whatever we can ask today better from companies yeah this is not the 80s anymore you know not the 90s like we we advanced so much yeah that today we can demand more from companies yeah you know yeah it doesn't mean that like it's only you know that uh someone told me very early that when you're pointing a gun at someone maybe there's one finger towards them but there are three for you so you need to check yourself as well yeah you know yeah so I'm not saying that it's only them we need to do some homework as well but uh when I I will definitely call call out a company that is that messed up in my opinion and I will be very open to hear their response of like hey you're wrong because one two three and I will apologize and correct myself in another video if I feel that it is needed and that I did a mistake because honesty has to go all around not only when it's comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

Yeah yeah that's fair I think that's fair and yeah we we know we've seen it along the way and and I think sometimes if a game's really good and it and it sings to you you can you can't not overlook those things but you still recognise they're there but they don't detract you away from the game because the game's got you in its its hooks right but for other people that can be a massive frickin' barrier that they'll go you know what I'm not bothering because because of that barrier that you've put in with the rulebook or that barrier that that someone's put in because of something else. I mean if a game's wildly imbalanced because it's not been play tested properly that's just freaking annoying because you know an expansion's coming out to fix it and it's the age old um you know digital games model where you release something and the DLC will fix everything later down the license patch patch and then suddenly it's the game it should have been three years ago and we don't want any of that crap in in our hobby. That's that's go away get it right do the time I'd I'm more than happy that a game takes longer to come out if they're doing their due diligence. If a company's saying you know what it's not ready then don't release it then.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Like it's it's couldn't couldn't agree with you more JP couldn't agree with you more um this disease that we have today in the in the industry that a game has not even come out yet yet to the backers for example and already there is like a campaign for the expansion I'm like but you didn't hear anything that we the players had to say you didn't hear us at all so how you're getting your feed from who you're getting your feedback yeah so that means one of two things a you had a game and you cut it and now you're bringing the second part yeah or B you just don't care about uh you don't care about the feedback both ways it's a red flag both ways it's a red flag but um I do want to tell you that I think that sometimes we're a little bit too rushed to judge okay and sometimes because of one small thing we're like ah this is not for me I don't want to deal with

Examples of hitting barriers in the hobby

SPEAKER_00 49:48

it. So I'll give you another example if if you don't mind. There is a game called Pakistanists the second edition okay the rule book uh I I wouldn't even use it for like uh it's a firewood okay to start a fire I wouldn't even use it for that it's uh it's terrible okay at the end of the day with the rule book and with the help of videos and whatever I understood how to play and I discovered an incredible game truly an incredible game but that is something so you know you have like a barrier you you overcome it and you're discovering something amazing but this is something that I would let the publisher go with it one time.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yeah because oh I'm so sorry for the camera and I don't know why it's so it's because you get really passionate it's getting you yeah it's very it's it's a passion camera it's a passion camera this is very sorry I'm sorry about that don't worry about it anyways anyways the second time the second time that I received the that I took again packs transhumanity same public same publisher same author and I just opened the rule book and again you have like this garbage of a rule book I'm like you know what fool me once you know shame on me you know and then I I'm just not doing this anymore so what I want to say that the bottom line don't let one small thing to like completely discourage you from playing a game you know play a game make the effort make the effort because in most cases you're going to find something that you're enjoying but of course not all the time and sometimes you're like you know what you know fluff this I just don't want to do this let me do something that is easier on my mind you know no that's fair that's fair and and I love that I love that we gotta keep you know in the industry we've got to keep those those publishers accountable for for the products they're delivering and and the end of the day we're not here to just be nice and go yeah everything's brilliant all the time because it's not and you know and and there are people out there in in you know in the content creation who are uh I'd say quite ruthless in doing it and there are people that are just always saying that everything's good so it's nice to have the the honest opinion about stuff and the way that it's been delivered is like look it's not going to hit for me and recognizing that not every game's gonna be for you and I have friends that deal with that uh struggle with this and they'll just go that that's that's shit that that that game is shit and you're like it's shit for you right so like nah it's rubbish and it's like oh okay but yeah it's it's it's to to kind of remind yourself of that mantra I think is really important. So yeah that's cool. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah yeah um which JP which game I got a question for you before we continue which game for you for example uh you tried and you're like like you you made the effort to get the game and then you're like wow I'm so happy that I insisted on on getting this game to the table to learn it.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Oh god you put me on the spot now mate I'm trying to think there was a game that I I didn't actually read the rule book the game that I was not even remotely bothered about and then I played it I like so it was a Anno 1800 um was was a game so a friend a friend of mine had had it and he said I've got I've got this game and we're putting up a an event for it on Thursday or whatever and I was like do you want to play and I was like yeah sure but I was like I've not played the video game it's like nah and and I I'll play anything like I I I don't let get any game put me off I don't let any theme put me off I will play anything but for some reason I just wasn't really interested in this game. So I turned up and I I kid you not I once I had a little bit of a teach and understood what was going on and I got my hand of cards and I realized that you have to shed these cards that are in your hand these like uh people this population and and just how it works and I think within minutes I was like this is freaking awesome just like this is freaking crazy but but again that's not quite yeah it's like this is so good and like and then before you know it we're asking who's got sausages have you got the sausages because I need the sausages to do that. You know and it's basically that kind of game. But that's probably not exactly what you asked because it's one that I've had barriers personally and I'm trying to think of of specific ones that I've been oh I'll tell you what a good example of it. It's a recent one which is uh Baseball highlights 2045 on the original rule book not the one that Paul Grogan wrote I have to put that out because he rewrote it it's the original so I got a secondhand copy of the game and um I read through that that old rule book and oh god and that game's got a weird flow to it in terms of how it well I don't know if you've played it before but it's like futuristic baseball. It's a very strange theme. It's very good though it's a good card game. And it's got a I play a card I do an action which then interacts with what your card does and then I come back to my card to do a thing and it's got this very much back and forth flow and it's quite it's not that complicated but but the rule book wasn't helping to explain what the freaking hell was going on. And like so so you what and you're like hey and you're trying to do that and then Paul's Paul's version. So when you download the next but the latest but rule book Paul's version of it it's like right got and he's got an example how to play in the flow of the like the first full game and you go got it right done. It's all it needed just needed to kind of be brought alive but that I knew there's a good game in there because people um in in content creation um side have said it's great you should try it and I was like right I will but it's like this is annoying but once you push through it yeah it's like oh this is a gem of a game in here and I I love it to bits but um but yeah that that's the most recent example I think but I kind of knew it was good so I knew it was worth the juice is worth the worth the squeeze you know and you don't always know that when you get in a new thing and you're in the box you just hopefully it's good um but there we go absolutely oh that's a good that's a good answer man thank you thank you for sharing Paul Grogan uh the the the the job that he did with the the rule book of like even Frostpunk I'm like I even said it in one of my recent videos companies need to aspire writing rule books like this guy that is writing rule books that's the level man yeah that's the level yeah exactly exactly yeah

What things have you seen change the most from old to new games that you cover?

SPEAKER_03 56:18

cool okay last question for you um so you've covered a wide range of games from old classics to previewing new stuff that's not even been released yet so you you you don't discriminate you go I'm gonna go like katan I'm gonna do that and you've got new things so what things can you call out that you've you've seen that's changed the most in in the industry um you know from when you look at recent games that are coming out versus to the oldie goldies um back 10 years ago like what what are you noticing uh first of all I gotta tell you that that in general and this is not to deter companies from working with me but in general I will always I will always prefer to work on a game that is already out there yeah you know I I usually don't like working with prototypes or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

I'm not saying that it never happened because it did and it will continue of course it's part of the job but in in in general I would always try to work with a a final production copy you know so what did I see that uh moved forward basically from the old is to the new things I think that um let's let's take one positive and one negative example. So on the negative example I see that many times uh companies are trying to uh cover a not a good game with a nice rapper you know and uh this is for me how companies are sometimes trying to tune into this FOMO that is a very real feeling that we are having okay and and just you know you have a game that is like okay but everything that you have you know the miniatures and and and the nice player aids and the I don't know five layers of you know components and I'm like dude this is you know I just want to move some pieces on the board and have some fun with my friends you know I don't need to to solve any equations here.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

So I think that this is one thing that we're seeing with companies they're just trying to uh put more and more and more blinking to a game without actually having a game so that's on the negative part uh unfortunately something that I'm saying yeah on the other side I definitely see that uh some companies uh understand that the uh um the demands uh of the of the players have risen okay in a good way okay there is just like okay it's like I said before it's 2026 we need to deliver something else we cannot continue do games like we did 10 15 years ago okay the the board game world is changing and we need to adapt so sometimes it will be great so games will have also a solo mode and a co-op mode and if they're if they're made nicely then you really get like a a full package take i'm i'm looking at voidful for example so voidful you for me it's one of the my top euro games of all time an excellent experience that you have there a solo mode you have a cooperative mode you know so mind clash gets it you know uh they they really yeah they do uh they really do yeah so so so I think that in a lot of cases as well companies are just bringing uh better quality uh to us yeah yeah because I think you're right our our standards have risen like we we've once we're happy with a a little sheet as a player board and we put all our cubes on that they would slide around all over Terraforming Mars original stuff like once upon a time we would accept that and now we've had the dual layer board which has now gone wow okay and that's now our standard and it's like no we don't want our cubes sliding around the place we want quality of life we want we want user experience and UX I think in board games it's a massive topic you know Ian O tool master of of of his craft of doing UX and UI on on board gaming um it's so important it's so important just how things are laid out where things are the experience of actually playing it regardless of what the game is and what it's about the experience of you being at the table how you're interacting with this thing and how things look and uh how it's all cohesive together as a language or design language it's it's it's so it's so interesting. I'd love to to chat with Ian one day around around that sort of stuff because it's a topic it's so cool like because we just get the best of it we go I'm here man yeah the best of it we don't know how the hell he does it but he does it so well and others do you know it's not just Ian it's there's many many people who are great at that craft but but there we go there we go okay well thanks for sharing that's it's quite cool to see your your opinion over you know uh all the kind of range of games that you've been you've been playing along on and dealing with on your channel but look mate

PHASE D: THANKING ASAF

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

um I think time is is ebbing away as it always does and I could probably talk to you for another 17 hours about stuff and no doubt but we'll get we'll get you back on as a for for another chat maybe we can do a specific focus chat on something it would be quite cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

But um what question I what question I will leave you with is what's what's coming up for you what are you excited about that's on the horizon anything you want to share um I would say uh to some the most superficial so that's probably when the viewers or the listeners will say oh he's full of like you know whatever but the one thing that I'm very really looking forward to is just the delivery of um uh the two decades edition you know of the War of the Ring. That's like right now what I'm looking forward to you know that's great and uh yeah that's like the one thing that I'm very excited for and to be honest I'm just looking forward to um essen and the next time UK E. That's just looking to to interact and engage with people.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:13

Yeah yeah I'm looking forward to Assin as well i'll um I'll be going uh again this year so so we'll have to I'll have to come and say hi um are you are you there as a general are you demoing anything this year or are you there just as a consumer of being press I will probably spend about two uh hours per day with glass cannon unplugged demoing whatever game they would like me to demo but the rest of the time I'm completely wide open coffee beer coffee and beer whatever sometimes together so we need to make sure that we're yeah exactly so we need to make sure that we find some time for that that sounds good man I'm I'm always up for a beer so uh let me get a beer with you uh during Essen but no look thank you so much Sassaf for your time uh this afternoon and jumping on the show I've been wanted to to have a good chat with you and I really appreciate it man it's uh yeah I loved having you on JP thank you so much actually for for hosting me here i i'm really uh was very excited for this i'm happy that we found this opportunity thank you for making time in your schedule i know it's tight uh it's been a a true pleasure for me to to to be here with you thank you brilliant thank you so much pal bye guys thank you so much bye

PHASE E: THE LAST PLAY

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

bye and there we have it thank you so much for asaf for joining the the channel and uh joining on for the episode for all things talking games and and content creation and all that kind of good stuff so really appreciate it mate thank you so much for doing that again if you've liked and enjoyed the show then you know what to do the socials please interact with them all the details are in the show notes down there as always comment I love it um and if you've got questions for myself and ASAF then please use the comments and and away you go we'll we'll do our best to to kind of respond and and uh yeah deal with that really um and if you've enjoyed the show so much you want to support the show financially then I have a coffee where you can come support and you know throw a few quid here or there it really helps the show grow and yeah keeps it going because podcasts aren't free to host they really aren't um but no other than that uh thank you so much for listening and you only grow old when you stop playing take care everyone